Age change gets mixed reactions
By DAVE PAYNE Sr., dpayne@newsandsentinel.comCHARLESTON - Local lawmakers' reactions are mixed on an effort in Charleston to raise the age of compulsory school attendance in West Virginia.
H.B. 2119, introduced by Del. Sharon Spencer, D-Kanawha, would expand the age of mandatory school attendance from 16 years old to 18.
Del. John Ellem, R-Wood, said he doesn't believe students should be allowed to drop out of school until they become legal adults at age 18.
"Unless you graduate early, you shouldn't be allowed to leave school at 16. You can't get anywhere these days without a college education, let alone a high school education," he said.
However, Del. Bill Anderson, R-Wood, a teacher at Williamstown High School, isn't so sure.
"I have mixed feelings about it. We have laws on the books already to encourage them to stay in school. If they don't finish high school, they lose their driver's license until 18. The unfortunate thing is, you can create a situation where the student can find a way to get out of school by doing something to get suspended or expelled. That's a very small minority that would fit in that category, but to require it when you already have incentives in place, I'd have to take a very long, hard look at it before voting," Anderson said.
Wood County Schools Superintendent Bill Niday also said raising the requirement could be a double-edge sword.
"It would keep kids in school a little longer and that's a good thing. On the negative side, you have kids that don't want to be there and discipline issues arise from kids who don't want to be in school," he said.
Niday said school officials offer numerous programs to help keep students in school.
"Each school does its own thing and has its own programs to retain students - there's extra help available if they are behind and alternative school is offering credit recovery, where if a student is behind, they can take that to catch up and stay on progress toward graduation. There's a variety of things to keep kids in school and get them to graduate. There's also a new provision that if a student does not make adequate progress academically, they can lose their driver's license. That's not been implemented yet, but it could happen at the end of the school year," Niday said.
Ellem said raising the age is in the best interests of the state.
"You can't legislate for a few, you have to do what's going to be best for the community as a whole. We will never get ahead as a state without education. Everything you can do to discourage drop out is a positive for the state," Ellem said.
Del. Mitch Carmichael, R-Jackson, said by the time students reach 16 years old they begin making decisions for themselves - right or wrong.
"If you have a 16-year-old who wants to leave school, it's unfortunate, but you can't make them stay and you can't make them learn and it can be a disruption for the other students. Raising the age sounds good, but they are basically adults at that point. If you don't want them to stay, they won't stay. I hate that, but that's the way it is," he said.
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Pcchix
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03-11-09 8:00 AM
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I lived in Japan so not sure about the mandatory school compared to China. Even if it is only mandatory to go to the age of 14, you can bet they are taking those test to go on. My friend had 4 children and she worked just to pay for the study class they took to prepare for the next school entrance exam. The higher the grade, the better the school. And pride runs deep, most children would never shame their families and quit school at a young age. And you are right again, the county does not deal with it - but the parents do.
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Observer
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03-09-09 10:33 PM
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In addition... The GED is simply a notice, or billboard, that proclaims, This One Quit School! It worthless as a replacement for a high school diploma.
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Observer
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03-09-09 10:30 PM
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If a kid wants to quit school, the worst thing that can be done is throw up your hands and say ""If you have a 16-year-old who wants to leave school, it's unfortunate, but you can't make them stay and you can't make them learn and it can be a disruption for the other students."" The kid needs turned around, and pronto! The days of walking out of school into a factory job are long gone!
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averageguy
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03-09-09 10:16 PM
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I wanted to add a little more to my earlier post. Several contributors mentioned that it is apparently difficult to keep a 16 year old in school if they really do not want to be there. Fine. Let's give them an alternative. Let's give them a choice. Everyone likes a choice. So here's the deal. Since at 16 years of age, and out of school you are more of a burden to society in general rather than a contributor we will put you to work. If you decide to drop out you will, within 10 days, be eligible for the draft. No not military draft, but a remake of the CCC - the Civilian Conservation Corp. We will put you to work. We will teach you a trade. You will produce useful material, build roads, parks and provide a benefit to society. You will earn miniumum wage. You will get basic health care. You will attned basic educational courses to make sure you can read and write. It'll be just like being a grown-up. Lot's of responsibility and little free time.
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averageguy
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03-09-09 10:09 PM
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I
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bigflint
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03-09-09 9:15 PM
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"You can't get anywhere these days without a college education, let alone a high school education," he said. Soooo.......Anyone who doesn't go to college and party for 4 years is a loser?
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Jo1234
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03-09-09 3:22 PM
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In China students are only required to complete 9 years of mandatory schooling (from age 6 to 14) For education beyond that they must take entrance exams to qualify. ***********factsmonk****/Education_System_in_China The same is true for India. These countries do not deal with the issue of students at the high school level who don't want to be there.
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ren26101
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03-09-09 12:35 PM
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16 is "basically an adult"? Since when? **** I was soooo far from an adult @ 16! Most the 16 yr olds I know are STILL babies and need their parents to survive and be productive members of society! I think Mr.Ellem has good reasons for trying to change the system but he is soooo going about it all wrong! Kids who don't want to learn or attend school and mess with the teachers and rules.. have no place in our local high schools. They create distraction and bad influence on kids who do want to be there or are staying because they are smart enough to know they NEED to be there! Not to mention the parents of these "BAD" kids.. who are gonna get get in to trouble because they cannot MAKE the kids attend when they are supposed to. They are just gonna have to try something else.
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Pcchix
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03-09-09 11:05 AM
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I have lived in Asia and Europe and the reason they don't have a drop out and welfare problem is because the kids go to school 5 1/2 days a week, all year round with 3 -4 breaks in between. And they go till the graduate, regardless of age. In Italy they graduate high school with an equivalant of an associates degree. And we wonder why those countries are ahead of us in math, science and technology? Please!!! The big joke overseas is "what do you call someone who speaks two languages - bi-lingual" "What do you call someone who speaks three languages - tri-lingual" "What do you call someone who speaks one language - American." Lack of education is the reason we have so many adults in the welfare system. And it's generational so where does it stop?
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CrazyLarryJones
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03-09-09 9:01 AM
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A 16 year old kid can get a job at McDonalds and support himself {snort} a 13 year old can't. If a kid wants out of school why keep him there? He won't cooperate and be a disruption. I think the real deal here is the schools need place fillers to get federal money, maybe come up with a class of dissability for them and get even more fed dollars. If the schools would do their job maybe kids wouldn't have such a desire to drop out.
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Bandit
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03-09-09 8:20 AM
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Average Guy -- AMEN. If 16 year olds are allowed to drop out of school because they do not want to be in school and would otherwise disrupt fellow students and become problem students, then why stop at 16 - what about the 13 or 14 year olds that don't want to attend school. Should they be permited to misbehave in an effort to also be allowed to quit school just because they do not want to attend. Where should it stop. Keep the "children" in school until either they graduate or turn 18 (legal age). One day they may thank you. Otherwise, it will be us tax payers that will be footing the bill to provide for the little drop outs for the rest of their welfare life and their many off spring too.
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averageguy
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03-09-09 7:55 AM
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We have to decide who is charge here - the children or the adults. Young people have been dropping out of school before 18 for years and years and to kow-tow to the minority of stupid students (which is what Del. Anderson is doing) by keeping the drop out age at 16 is unwise. West Virginia continues to suffer the consequences of thinking in the 1800's time frame. Not only should the drop out age be 18 but the school year should be 200 days long. It might be a pain, but being unskilled and unemployable at 28 is a bigger pain.
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tubaman
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03-09-09 7:49 AM
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OMG. I have news for Superintendent Niday - they wouldn't have discipline problems in the schools if they controlled the environment. There are teachers who allow 22 year old kids to come into the school at lunchtime so they can have lunch (with the teacher in his classroom) with their 11th grade girlfriends. Not to mention the teacher who was arrested a few years ago for having pot in his truck, which was parked at the school. All this coupled with the fact that the students will only receive about 160 educational days this year. I feel sorry for these kids when they try to make a living for themselves. Of course, B. Hussein Obama will take care of them, until he can no longer afford to pay the interest on the federal budget deficit.
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MrAlex
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03-09-09 5:48 AM
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What about the parents? Do the parents have to give the OK for their minor child to drop out of school at age 16? I assume at age 16 the kid still lives at home. Do the parents have to sign off on this, or does the kid just drop out. Although, I suppose if a kid really doesn't want to be in school, that kid would be a big problem for the teachers to have to deal with all the time and a disrupton for the other students who want to get an education. So if they can already drop out at 16, let them. That just means more jobs are available for the kids that DO finish. The ones that drop out can live with their parents forever or go on government assistance and let hussain obama support them with our tax dollars. After all, those 16 year old drop outs deserve to have everything those of us who finish college have, right? We can redistribute our wealth to them as obama wants us to do. Sounds fair to me. Then those 16 year olds can have a nice life, too, all for doing nothing.
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Louise304
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03-09-09 5:32 AM
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At 16, "they are basically adults at that point", why is voting age 18 and drinking age 21? Also, if "they are basically adults at that point" why does the person lose driving license? I have actually heard teachers telling students "Go ahead and quit and get your GED". I understand not wanting students who will cause disruptions but come on at least be honest about it and not say "they are basically adults at that point."
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