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Proving a Point

Farmer, judge stand up to EPA bullies

May 6, 2013

A West Virginia farmer who refused to let the Environmental Protection Agency win a game of “chicken” is, with help from a federal judge, doing an enormous service to others who fear the EPA will......

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(29)

denver

May-06-13 7:41 AM

I bet if the author of this article lived down stream from this place, they would be singing a different tune.

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AaronS

May-06-13 8:23 AM

Once again DA denver remains unaware to the facts. A simple google search of the facts would have saved you from showing your ignorance. The EPA erroneously claimed that dander and dust particles from the chicken coops were spit out by a ventilation fan, that heavy rains could wash away these particles, the rainwater could flow into a ditch, and from there they could flow into a navigable water over which the EPA has jurisdiction.

While all of that may or may not be feasible, the Clean Water Act expressly exempts agricultural storm water discharges thus the EPA lacks jurisdiction. Knowing this, some nimrod at the EPA still issued a non-compliance order fining Alt $75,000 daily for something they have no control over. Once someone up the food chain realized they couldn’t win, they dropped the order and are requested the suit be dropped. That didn’t happen so now the EPA has to answer for their overreach. Why am I not surprised that you know none of this?

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denver

May-06-13 10:01 AM

"WhatsNext" you may be right but, I still stand by what I wrote, "I bet if the author of this article lived down stream, or down wind from this place, they would be singing a different tune.

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denver

May-06-13 10:04 AM

Now, Google That!

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AaronS

May-06-13 10:35 AM

If there's a case, why did the EPA drop their case.

Rhetorical question DA, we all know you're not smart enough to answer them. I just like proving how little knowledge you possess. It's so easy.

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Geezer

May-06-13 2:48 PM

Chesapeake Bay, the recipient of runoff from the Alt farm and similar ones in W.Va. and surrounding states has been dying since the early 1970s. One particularly harmful source of toxicity is Pfiesteria piscicida, which can affect both fish and humans. Pfiesteria caused a small regional panic in the late 1990s when a series of large blooms started killing large numbers of fish while giving swimmers mysterious rashes, and nutrient runoff from chicken farms was blamed for the growth. Crab fishermen and oystermen are almost a thing of the past on Chesapeake Bay. I was a frequent visitor there in the early 1980s but quit going after seeing beaches covered with hundreds of thousands of dying crabs which had climbed out of the oxygen-depleted waters trying to breathe, only to suffocate and die on the shoreline.

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AaronS

May-06-13 4:27 PM

continued from above...

During a fish kill caused by Pfiesteria piscicida, fish exhibit peculiar behavior. They may swim abnormally, become disoriented, beach themselves, or hover near the surface of the water. Fifteen minutes is long enough for Pfiesteria piscicida to complete the process of killing a fish (Hager, 1997), therefore, toxic outbreaks of Pfiesteria piscicida are altogether very short, normally lasting for the duration of only a few hours. Fish may continue to develop lesions or even die for days or weeks afterward, however, once weakened by the toxins.

Pfiesteria piscicida has been busy killing fish when the conditions are right for the past several years. This year, however, it has not been as active as in the past. Researchers hypothesize that Pfiesteria piscicida took a break after storms stirred waters and spread the populations, thus making the dinoflagellates less concentrated and less aggressive.

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AaronS

May-06-13 4:28 PM

continued from above...

Pfiesteria piscicida in its nontoxic forms is quite harmless; it may masquerade as a plant and appear to photosynthesize, or it may feed on bacteria and algae. In the presence of fish excreta and secretions, however, it is stimulated to metamorphose into a killer. Once triggered, Pfiesteria piscicida emits a neurotoxin into the water which subdues the fish and eats through their skin. Pfiesteria piscicida then feeds on the weak and exposed skin, blood, and tissue. The fish eventually die not by the invasion of Pfiesteria piscicida, but by suffocation (the toxins cause paralyzation of muscles) or by infection (bacteria and foreign objects can enter the fish through the lesions). After the fish die, the dinoflagellates may continue to feed on the fish or change forms and disappear, leaving as the only evidence of its presence open, quarter-sized lesions on the fish carcasses.

continued below...

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AaronS

May-06-13 4:29 PM

from above...

In 1988, Dr. JoAnn Burkholder, an aquatic ecologist at NC State U, discovered the organism, and declared it a new species in a new genus and a new family in the order Dinamoebales. Burkholder and her associates named the new organism Pfiesteria after the late Dr. Lois Pfiester, a researcher of dinoflagellates. The "piscicida" part translates to "fish killer." Burkholder theorizes that Pfiesteria piscicida has always been naturally present in the estuaries and tidal rivers of North Carolina, yet only in the last decade has something caused it to morph into a toxic fish killer (Barker, 1997). Since its discovery ten years ago, Pfiesteria piscicida has killed more than one billion fish Although Pfiesteria piscicida has been blamed for the deaths of so many fish, it is only a small organism. Throughout the course of its 24 different stages of life, Pfiesteria piscicida ranges in size from 5 to 450 micrometers, several of these stages may produce toxins.

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AaronS

May-06-13 4:32 PM

I have no idea if what you say is true or not Geezer, so unlike others, I googeled your claim. This is one of the pages I came up with. I had to put it in 4 separate post but I wanted to get it all in there. I am curious, how do you know this microorganism comes from the Alt farm? --------- What is Pfiesteria piscicida? Dinoflagellates are a group of microscopic one-celled microorganisms. Most are free swimming and are plant-like, that is, they have the ability to obtain energy by photosynthesis. A natural part of the environment, dinoflagellates are nontoxic organisms. Pfiesteria piscicida, however, is an exception to that rule. Although it is classified as a dinoflagellate, it is toxic and can be both plant-like by performing photosynthesis and animal-like by consuming other organisms. Although believed to have been in the environment for millions of years, Pfiesteria piscicida was only recently discovered.

continued below...

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AaronS

May-06-13 4:38 PM

I also went to the Chesapeake Bay Foundation (I'd post a link but they won't print it, you can google it though) and what I found was interesting. I agree we need to clean up our waters to save area's like this bay and I do believe it is proper for the EPA to address this issue, but one thing I didn't see was clean up sites in WV. There were plenty in PA, MD and VA and I know that eastern West Virginia is part of the Chesapeke Bay watershed but I saw nothing regarding WV. I also saw nothing concerning Pfiesteria piscicida? Wonder why that is?

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WhatsNext

May-06-13 5:15 PM

Wow, Denver, you really are losing it! I haven't made a comment on this story, but yet, you're invoking my name in your comments. Are you trying to come on to me since I'm obviously on your mind? Sorry, but I can tell by your comments that you're not my type. Heck, I can't imagine that you would be anyone's type. On second thought, you could wait and see if scum-bag Bill runs away with Monica and you could move in on Hillary. Or maybe Nancy Pelousy (not a typo). Aaron, HELP!

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NobodySpecial

May-06-13 5:37 PM

The EPA could have been helped rather than charged someone that was truly unable to perform what was requested. Pending the request was legitimate and doable. Without some critical facts we are just throwing displaced anger at another government organization. I'm not defending anyone, but wow people grow up.

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NobodySpecial

May-06-13 5:42 PM

* .... (Could have helped)

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denver

May-06-13 6:57 PM

Heres a question for you "AaronsNext" would you drink the water down stream from Lois Alt chicken farm? A yes or no will do!

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AaronS

May-06-13 7:50 PM

Why don't you comment on geezer's claim and the response Denver.

If you can.

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KOMBATBOOTS

May-06-13 11:08 PM

Denver, do you eat chicken? If so are you working on sh_t free chickens? Would you prefer that all of our food be raised in China? They already have most of our industry due to your friends the EPA and the democrats. When they control it all they truly will own us.

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Remington

May-07-13 2:03 AM

Agree Kombat! Great post! Whatsnext, I am praying for someone to knock off that (Capital B) Peloski because everyone out here hates her, except the people in SF ( Her district)

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denver

May-07-13 4:58 AM

Answer the question, would you drink the water down stream from Lois Alt chicken farm?

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denver

May-07-13 5:00 AM

Well said "Geezer"

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denver

May-07-13 5:20 AM

The ones on where that's so against Lois Alt complying with the EPA regulations shouldn't have a problem with drinking the water down stream from Lois Alt chicken farm.

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denver

May-07-13 5:35 AM

"The ones on here"

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AaronS

May-07-13 8:20 AM

Lois Alt IS complying with EPA regulations denver. The EPA realized that, which is why they dropped their demand for compliance. Or do you have another reason for why the EPA CAVED to Lois Alt on this issue?

As for answering your question, I will be happy to do so, just as soon as you answer the numerous questions that have been posed to you.

Fraidy cat.

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AaronS

May-07-13 8:21 AM

Geezer, unlike denver, you seem to have a mode of sense about you. I would be curious to your response to the articles I found.

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RANDOM21

May-07-13 10:49 AM

One question that needs an answer is, Which came first the chicken farm that complies with the law or the egghead that oversteps their authority and tries to force what they believe versus what they are supposed to do?

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